Episode 41: Navigating Hearing Loss as both Patient and Audiologist with Michelle Hu

On episode 41 of All Ears at Child’s Voice: A Hearing Loss Podcast, Wendy and Colleen are joined by Michelle Hu, also known on the internet as Mama Hu Hears. Michelle Hu has been a pediatric audiologist for over 13 years working specifically with the diagnosis, hearing amplification, cochlear implant evaluation, programming, and aural rehabilitation. Something unique about her is that she grew up hard of hearing herself. She was fitted with hearing aids at 3 years and now utilizes bilateral cochlear implants. She is creator of Mama Hu Hears, a safe space to share, laugh, learn and inspire others about living life with hearing loss.

Wendy and Colleen talk to Michelle about how she helps families navigate their children’s hearing loss journey with the unique perspective as both a deaf woman and a pediatric audiologist.

Where to Find Us:

• You can email us at podcast@childsvoice.org. 
• Follow Child’s Voice on Facebook, Twitter, and Instagram @Childs_Voice.

Please leave us a voice memo:

• Use the Voice Memos App on iPhone 
• Voice recording on an Android smart phone and transferring audio files to a computer
• Send your voice memos to us at podcast@childsvoice.org we’d love to hear from you!

Resources from this episode:

Connect with Michelle! Find her on Instagram, Facebook, and LinkedIn 

Website: www.mamahuhears.com

Online course for parents: www.mamahuhears.com/course

Merchandise shop: www.mamahuhears.com/shop 

 

You can help All Ears at Child’s Voice continue to connect children and families with hearing loss and the professionals who serve them. Donate now!

 

Episode Transcript: 

Wendy: [00:00:00] Welcome to another episode of All Ears, a child’s voice, a hearing loss podcast. 

Wendy: We aim to connect parents of children with hearing loss to the professionals who serve them. This week on all ears, a child’s voice, we talk to Dr. Michelle, who Michelle, who has been a pediatric audiologist for over 13 years, working specifically with the diagnosis, hearing amplification, cochlear implant evaluation, programming, and oral rehabilitation service.

Wendy: Something unique about her is that she grew up with a hearing loss herself. She would fit with hearing aids at age three, and now utilizes bilateral cochlear implants. She is the creator of Mama who hears a safe space to [00:01:00] share, laugh, learn, and inspire others about living life with hearing loss. Michelle, thank you so much for joining us.

Wendy: We’re happy to have. 

Michelle: I’m excited to be here. 

Colleen: Well, Michelle, I would love for you to tell us a little bit about yourself. You are a pediatric audiologist who also has hearing loss, so I feel like there’s two avenues. I’d love to know more about how did your hearing loss journey, and then how you got into pediatric audiology.

Michelle: Yeah. Um, when I was born, they don’t, I don’t know if I was born with hearing loss or not. Um, it wasn’t discovered until I was about three or four years old, and my preschool teacher told my mom, you know, you should get Michelle’s hearing checked. She’s sneaking off on her own during story time. She’s reading a book by herself, or she’s just humming a little tune.

Michelle: It would be a good idea to take a look. And my mom, she was. Shocked. I was conversing in. English and Chinese at home. I was [00:02:00] a chatterbox. I was a typical three or four year old toddler, and she thought maybe they’re talking about my son, my brother, who didn’t really talk that much. He wasn’t super social or anything.

Michelle: But no, it was me and they found a mild hearing loss at that time, which makes sense cuz at three or four years old, you know, you are usually in the same room with your parents. You’re not like a teenager upstairs, you know, reading magazines up there and mom’s calling you to come down to dinner. Uh, so I flew under the radar and.

Michelle: Fast forward. I’m a pediatric audiologist now, and I really feel like my entire life experiences, both professional and personal, have led me to really be optimized here as a person, as a professional, as somebody who can support and. I started missing. I was on maternity leave during the pandemic, or right [00:03:00] before the pandemic, and I missed my patients.

Michelle: I said I missed the rapport. I missed the relationships, talking with my patients. My patients were growing up. They, they’re becoming parents themselves, and they would ask me, Michelle, what do you do at night? When your baby’s crying, do you wear your devices? Do you not wear your devices? What do I do if I don’t wanna wear my devices?

Michelle: And I thought, oh, I do live a li live life a little bit differently. You know, I didn’t, I was just doing what I needed to do. I found a, um, alarm clock that, you know, shook me awake. I hooked that up to my baby monitor. Figuring things out and just keeping on moving forward is just something that’s just in my personality.

Michelle: And a friend of mine told me you should share, you know, you’re only seeing eight to 10 patients a day in the clinic. Look at social media now, you can use it in a very positive way and spread the word [00:04:00] so that people who are new to this situation can stand upon your shoulders and then, you know, reach even higher heights.

Michelle: So it’s been a journey the last couple of years. I initially started everything for the parents and then for my deaf and heart of hearing peers. But what I realized is, what I didn’t realize at the time was how much I needed that community. Mm-hmm. I always kept the deaf and heart of hearing community at an arm’s length, cuz I was a, I’m a professional.

Michelle: I thought, oh, I’m gonna break hipaa, I’m gonna get in trouble. I shouldn’t get close to people who are my patients, but I did it. It’s really become full circle. It’s beautiful. I love what I’m doing now and uh, it’s just fun. I get to talk to people like you. 

Wendy: Yeah. That you bring up something so important, which is that sense of community.

Wendy: So it sounds like along your journey as a child with hearing loss, what did that look like for you? Did you [00:05:00] find community in others with hearing loss or were you one of the few children in, in your school with a hearing? 

Michelle: I was one of a few. I had one, two ch other children that I knew who had, who were deafer hard of hearing.

Michelle: Both of them were profound while my hearing loss was mild and then got progressively worse. Um, so all different journeys, very different audiograms and very different parents. As a child, my, you know, my mom didn’t have Google. She had my audiologist, my pediatric audiologist. She had the principal at my school and she had our, um, priest at our church that she went to for help, but she didn’t have other, many other parents to say, I’m frustrated with these hearing aids.

Michelle: I am frustrated with all of these appointments that we go to, [00:06:00] and there’s no answer. My parents searched for a cure for a little while. Probably, I would say a couple of years. They took me to New York, Chicago. I grew up in Ohio and various E N Ts audiologists, SLPs in hopes to find a cure. My mom tells the story that I went up to her.

Michelle: I said, mommy, why are you crying? She was crying one day and she said, I wish I could take it for. Hmm. And as a kid, I said, what if I’m supposed to be this way? My mom’s heart was just like, oh, you know, she, she’s the same, Michelle the same. And from that day on, it almost lost that power over her and my dad because, and I see this very often in parents that receive a new identification or a diagnosis of their child.

Michelle: They grieve. They grieve an idea of what they think or thought their [00:07:00] child’s life would be like. So they’re letting go of that idea. But what my mom realized in that moment is, oh, I can just focus on what she can do, not necessarily what she can’t do. And there really isn’t that much I cannot do except here in certain situ.

Michelle: So I’m just on a mission to change that mindset, to empower the parents, empower the children. When I can support all of the adults in a child’s village, I feel like you’re really changing the world and the trajectory. For that child. So I love the, um, name of your podcast Child’s Voice. That’s what we’re giving oomph to.

Michelle: We’re giving confidence to that. We’re giving support to that and letting these children know you can do whatever you want to do. Your dreams absolutely can be achieved, and it starts here first. How you think of, one of the things that I tell parents very often is how you think of your child’s [00:08:00] diagnosis will heavily influence how they think of their own diagnosis or think of themselves and that that gets to change.

Michelle: And it all starts like just one thought. Yeah. 

Colleen: Yeah, I think you would be such a valuable asset to parents, particularly hearing parents of deaf and hard of hearing kids, because I think about, as a hearing parent myself of a, of a, a deaf son. I’m constantly looking for other adults that can help me understand what do I need to do.

Colleen: To help him navigate the world. His experience of the world is different than mine. He is going to experience things differently. Like I think about travel is always one I think about because there’s lots of things that I wouldn’t think twice about that I’ve learned from other deaf adults that are like, oh no, these things are really hard.

Colleen: So I just think for you as a pediatric audiologist, you’re in contact with so many parents of kids and you get to help them know, well, these are the things that you, so I am just curious for you, what are the things as [00:09:00] this. With hearing loss perspective that you get to give other parents, what are the things that you’re trying to help parents see or navigate or just like kind of shine a light on that another pediatric audiologist who does not have hearing loss would not be able to help them.

Colleen: See, 

Michelle: this just goes back to one of my mottos, or one of my sayings, is meet them where they’re at. And it applies to children, it applies to peers, it also applies to yourself, so you know. If somebody’s upset, they’re sad, they had, you know, maybe thwarted expectations of something that they really wanted to happen.

Michelle: Be with it for a second. Okay? It’s okay to feel upset about that. It’s okay to feel like a failure or broken, or that I really wanted it to go this way, and I had my hopes. Okay? Okay. Take a look at that. Be worth it, and know that you’re, you’re still a human being. And then where do you wanna go with. What [00:10:00] kind of story do you wanna write?

Michelle: You can you get to write that story. This is your life. This is your individual deaf for heart of hearing journey with your family. And everybody has a different threshold. They, everybody has different pet peeves or things that will drain their tank in half a second. You know, so my, my husband, Redding Errand.

Michelle: Can take a lot out of him. Whereas for me, I. Cool. I got this done. I got this done. Let’s go. All of these check thing, these things, I can check off my list. But you know, the thought of getting in the car, bringing the kids in their car seat, getting the kids out of the car seat, Dr. Or you know, or driving there, getting the kids out of the car seat, finding a shopping cart, going through the store, looking for the, where these, these looking for items that I don’t even know where they are yet.

Michelle: That’s an ordeal for. Cooking. Cooking is e comes easy for me, where it might not come easy for somebody else, but [00:11:00] give me a location and try to tell me, tell me to listen for directions. Forget it, like I, that’s gonna frazzle me. Everybody has different things, so meet yourself where you are. And like you said, most deaf hard of hearing children are born to hearing parents, and that’s who I wanna support.

Michelle: How do they learn about a community, a life, and a journey that they haven’t been through? Parenting is hard enough as is throw on, you know, a disability, a different window to view, wor the world through, and it can sure surely throw a hearing parent off. And then, you know, there’s not conflicts, but just differences in how deaf community lives, how hearing community lives.

Michelle: And my friend Emily Burke, she is a deaf adult, let me know. She said, we [00:12:00] have enough. We have just enough, if not more, to learn about the hearing community, that the hearing community has to learn about us. She goes, hearing community people. They can just yell louder and louder and louder and louder to get the attention of people to make their, to drive their point home.

Michelle: You can’t do that in the deaf community. It’s facial features. It’s the energy behind that person. It’s the, and maybe intensity of their signs. It’s flickering of the light is stamping on the ground so that people can feel what your message is. It’s all communication, whichever mode that he or she may wanna.

Michelle: Yeah, that was a long answer to you. Quick question. That’s 

Wendy: okay. That was a great answer. You know, Michelle, that brought something up for me that I’m interested in learning more about you as a mom. I know your children are relatively young, but as some of our listeners know, I grew up with [00:13:00] parents who are deaf 

Wendy: and this dumping on the floor and the flickering of the light. You know, sneaking out of the house and all those things, I think made my childhood a little bit different. Now, my parents didn’t have cochlear implants until they were in their sixties, but I’m really interested if you’ve observed anything with your own children and how they perceive. I’m sure that to them you’re just mom, but have you noticed anything in, in your own children with them responding to your hearing loss and how you interact with them?

Michelle: Absolutely not so much with me cuz they are who they are with me. But like our babysitter or our friends would say, wow, your daughter gets in my face when she wants me to understand her message and if not rude or anything, they can tell she’s not trying to be rude. It’s, I want you to get my message. You know?

Michelle: Um, and I asked my daughter one of. Common things is they’ll be like, mom, mom, [00:14:00] mom, mom. Especially when you’re talking with somebody else, right? And I told her, you know what? It’s really hard for me to concentrate on one voice or the other. Could you just hold, put your hand on my shoulder and she’ll do it?

Michelle: She’s like, and then she’ll go harder. And I said, okay, I’m gonna touch your hand. And that. I feel you. I see you and I just need to finish, you know, this story with so-and-so. So I think the eye contact thing, every kid is different with patience, but you know, when they’re, when their tanks are filled and they’re okay, they just wanna tell me something, they do have a lot more patience than.

Michelle: You know, if they’re hangry, but sometimes my daughter, she’ll take my hand if she knows that my ears are out, she’ll take my hand and put it on her, on her neck, on her throat, and she’s like, mommy, I am talking to you. I’m like, okay. Yeah, but I’m, you know, watching the food is [00:15:00] cooking or something. But it’s very fun.

Michelle: And what was eyeopening to see how creative they are. In environments, cuz she is like, well, mommy’s ears are upstairs on the table. She’s down here. I really need to tell her this message. Am I gonna do it? And we’re not fluent in sign yet, but she’ll try or she’ll point, or she’s learning how to write. She is, you know, trying to write things.

Michelle: But then of course you’ll have meltdown. Like if I don’t get a word after the fourth time, she’s just like, well, you can’t, you know. She can’t think of how can she tell mom this message, or she’ll run and get my CI processor for me and like

Colleen: Wow, that’s so fascinating to me. How. Kids really adapt to their environment so quickly and pick up on these little things. Like it just seems like your daughter is a very tactile [00:16:00] communicator because of her experience with you and I, I just think that’s so amazing. I don’t know. Hmm. It’s fine. 

Wendy: Yeah. Do you, do you think your husband sees a difference with, cause I know some children who have one parent who signs and, and one parent that doesn’t, and even children.

Wendy: With multilingual homes, they code switch, you know, where they speak one language to one parent. Does your child communicate differently with 

Wendy: you and your husband or do you think that those good communication strategies, like making sure you’re looking at someone, does that carry over to everybody that, that they interact with?

Michelle: They definitely don’t get in his face, but I just wonder if it’s. A male female thing, like I’m mom, pretty much anything I’m eating is their game to them. Right? Whereas they don’t touch his food. They don’t, you know, they’ll climb on his lap, but they [00:17:00] don’t drink from his water bottle, they drink from mine.

Michelle: Or if they do, it’s like, We’re drinking from dad’s water bottle. It’s like this unspoken mom is our territory and dad’s got his own thing. I know that. Oh, actually one time my four and a half year old, you know, reminded my husband, hey, she can’t hear us noisy because he was washing dishes and talking and you know, we’re all over on the.

Michelle: And she could hear him and understand him. I could hear him but couldn’t understand him, and I didn’t know he was talking to me, so I just ignored it. And she goes, daddy, it’s too loud. You need to come show us your face. Wow. I’m like, oh, that’s super cool. Because they notice that it’s not just me, that not everybody could get the message, you know, if he’s talking towards the running water, run, running water in the dishes.

Colleen: Wow, that’s very cool. Can you [00:18:00] tell us a little bit more about the educational work you’re doing on social media? I know you said you started it because you were sort of missing your patients. Um, but I would love to hear more what. Happened on that platform? How has that kind of helped you communicate with different people?

Colleen: What are you seeing with Absolutely social media?

Michelle: Yeah. Thank you for this question. Um, I originally, like you said, I started it because I missed my patience, wanted to share a few tips and tricks of what I, how I navigate my life. But what I found was an overwhelming. Flood of questions from parents and nothing super out of the ordinary.

Michelle: Many of the questions were what I had gotten in clinic with patients, but I thought, oh my gosh, like if social media can reach so many people, I need to put what I’m practicing or what I am [00:19:00] sharing into some, I need to create some way. Everybody and anybody to be able to get this information. I think I created it for my mom 40 years ago, or who I 40 years ago.

Michelle: And to help that little Michelle or that, you know, Mrs. Who, who was just. What do I do? Where do I go? Who do I talk to? Do I our hearing aids gonna hurt my daughter? Should we learn a s l? Now, like yesterday, I created an online program. There’s eight video modules where I walk the parents through processing results, understanding information, understanding emotions, giving them space to grieve.

Michelle: The idea of what they thought their child’s childhood would look like. Um, how to, what to look at or what to discuss during an i e P. How to advocate for your [00:20:00] child, how to take care of yourself as a, as a caregiver, and. My favorite part of the program is the 13 additional bonus videos where I interview an S L P I interview an E N t, I interview an early interventionist.

Michelle: I interview a deaf mom of a hearing child. I interview a hearing mom of deaf children, and. The way I did it, I asked all of the questions that I could possibly think of to an E n t. My child has an ear infection, should I bring them to the appointment? Absolutely. But when you talk to somebody who’s doing a speech evaluation, maybe not.

Michelle: Just so you know, the E N T appointment is probably only gonna be about 15 or 20 minutes, whereas an S L P or speech. Evaluation will be an hour. It’s interactive with, um, with the, with the clinician. And we want your child to be well rested and happy and be ready to play games. I think it’s just so helpful [00:21:00] for parents that are new to the journey or still on the journey cuz the program covers all through school age to have the, that information and almost like they’ve been through it before.

Michelle: Is talking to somebody that you just met at the playground who’s been through the journey and, oh, okay, well this person said this and that was their experience. This, I feel so much better. I’m not paving my own path or reinventing the wheel, and I just made it available. It’s, it’s incredible. It’s reaching internationally.

Michelle: What I didn’t even think of when I created it was it will, Future professionals and and current professionals. This if being put into university curriculums or deaf studies or audiology students and S L P students because, oh wow. When you take a look at this is what an audiologist may be providing for a family, Ooh, this is information that I wanna give to this family.

Michelle: All of the resources or where to [00:22:00] find a s l classes in their local area or online. So, It’s been a really fun journey that had created a community around me, around, you know, In the deaf and heart of hearing community as a whole, and it’s just fun. Now, there’s a merchandise store like this is one of the, um, bags that’s gonna be coming out soon.

Colleen: Oh my 

Colleen: gosh, those are so cute. 

Colleen: Tell everyone where they can find these really 

Michelle: great. I have a website if mama who here is.com, there’s a shop on there. You can find the course on there. You can interact with me on Instagram. Pretty active there, as well as linked up to Facebook and LinkedIn, so there’s plenty of stops you can go.

Michelle: I think the best would be Instagram or my website. Mama who hears.com and that’s who? H U H U. Yeah, h u is my maiden name. Yeah. 

Colleen: Well, as you were talking about professionals and how this is now reaching [00:23:00] professionals, I’m, I’m curious as an audiologist, but also as a adult with hearing loss, what, what do you most want the professionals that are listening to know?

Michelle: I really want professionals. Who were working with hearing and healthcare, healthcare to be with those that they serve. When I was working in the hospital, I didn’t get to go to the schools and see what day-to-day life was for my students. I didn’t have kids until I was 35, so I didn’t know what, how a parent may feel if they’re receiving information.

Michelle: We need more pediatric cardiologists. Mm-hmm. So audiologists perhaps in the rural areas that are seeing pediatrics. Taking this program will help them know, oh, these are the emotions, these are the, um, thoughts that may come through in [00:24:00] parents’ minds when I deliver a diagnosis. If not, your child has severe to profound hearing loss.

Michelle: Don’t worry. We’ll take care of you. Go home, relax, and I’ll see you for your next. Parents gonna go home like, no, no, no. What do I need to do? Like, what can I do? Do I yell at my child? Do I not yell at my child? Do I sign? You know, that wait period between if they choose to get amplification and they need to get ear mold and they haven’t yet ordered the ear mold, what do I do?

Michelle: How do I talk to my kid? And you know, the answers are simple and yet they’re also individual for that family. You do what feels right. And this program really helps families feel empowered in making the choices best fit for their families and, and their child. So for the professionals, it helps them with counseling.

Michelle: It helps them be with their patient. It [00:25:00] helps them be with the community that they’re serving in a much more intimate or human way. Because I think oftentimes the longer and longer we’re in clinic, the more jaded we can become. Got it. This is textbook. They need to go to the e N T for tubes. No worries.

Michelle: First time, mom. Hold on. Hold on. Like, what do you mean they’re just gonna go to the, they’re gonna go under anesthesia. Wait, I’ve never had my child go under anesthesia. You know, all of those things in the program helps bring the professionals and students and parents. Down to that human level, and that’s where we can really connect.

Michelle: Colleen, when you were, if you feel comfortable, when you were going through that journey, what could have helped you? A buddy, a friend. Now we have social media to connect communities, but. Yeah, I 

Colleen: didn’t, this was like 12 years ago almost, when we were [00:26:00] first going through everything. And so social media was certainly a thing, but not in the same way.

Colleen: So it didn’t even probably occur to me to really look on social media. No, I think there was an overwhelming amount of appointments. Mm-hmm. And information, an overwhelming amount of just. Stuff that I think what was most beneficial to me and what I found at Child’s voice really was a community of other parents who were a little bit further down the road.

Colleen: And then as it went along for me, it was finding other deaf adults, mm-hmm. That were even further down the road that could help me to. You know, just to understand, I think any parent, there’s a book called Far From the Tree by Andrew Solomon that’s really beautiful, but it’s about parents raising kids with very different world experiences.

Colleen: And so he talks to, one of the first chapters is a about a deaf son and a and his hearing parents, but there’s also. There, he himself is gay. And so he [00:27:00] talks about his experience being, you know, a gay son to straight parents, all, yeah. All of these things. But anyway, but I think there is such a learning curve, like I’ve said, for parents who are really trying to help their kids navigate the world.

Colleen: And so for me, anything that would help me just understand a little bit better what my son’s experience in the world was going to be. And I think you were right. You talked about the grief and, and, and there was definitely some grief. There was some. Sort of, I think for a little bit they, the future that I thought my son was going to have sort of was gone.

Colleen: Now I, I, it is back tenfold, but there was a season of time where I didn’t know, like I didn’t know, we didn’t know anybody deaf. We didn’t know any, I didn’t know anybody with hearing loss or with implants or hearing aids. And he had kind of a. Circuitous route. And so we had sort of a, a second grief process where we got through the hearing aids and then we found out he needed implants a couple years later.

Colleen: And so then that was a different grieving process. So I think I appreciate that you really speak to [00:28:00] that because. Even somebody who at the time when we found out that he needed cochlear implants, we were very immersed in it. We were very used to his deafness and his diagnosis. But there was something new.

Colleen: It was a new wrench in the plan with the cochlear implants that we had to adjust to. And we had to, you know, and now, I mean, I remember. Early, early on being like, I wonder if he’ll like wanna take his hearing aids off for school pictures or something. Like just these dumb things that you think about first on.

Colleen: Mm-hmm. When it’s like all, even now I’m like, yeah, oh my gosh. If he did that, I would be so mad at him. And he, this is who he is. It’s a part of him in this beautiful way, but you just don’t know all these things. So to have some spaces to really process all of that, I think is really helpful. So I appreciate.

Colleen: As a parent, 

Michelle: I and I, you didn’t even see him. Like you get, okay, you get over the hump of the diagnosis and then the dust kind of settles and then another thing happens and oh, he breaks the leg. Or you know, you have to move houses and the new houses and set up [00:29:00] in a good, like, I didn’t know this about me until later, but I love open houses where the kitchen and the dining area is all the same, and I.

Michelle: It’s because I wanna see people’s faces. Yeah. It’s because I wanna connect. I’m like, oh. Oh, wow. And me personally, I, um, I, the canzo had just come out at, around the time that I got married and I said to the rep, can I borrow those for my wedding? I just don’t want big processors on my ears on my wedding day.

Michelle: And it, I fought with that for a little while. I. I don’t know why. Whenever I see a photo of me, my eyes go right to my devices. Do you see that? My husband was like, no, I don’t even see that. Like, I see you. So, you know, but then if your son’s decision, it’s my decision. It’s my journey along that path.

Michelle: However, I may want decide to take it on. I don’t know. So I, yeah, [00:30:00] I did wear the cans and then I never wore them ever. 

Colleen: I dunno. It is ever evolving. You know, we went through seasons where he would have the brightest ear molds and the most stickers and now he’s in middle school, so he’s trying to make it match his hair and he is trying to be discreet and my hope is that he’ll, you know, cycle through and then he’ll wanna be big and bold with them again.

Colleen: But I think that’s the other part of it as a parent is you’re often following your kids’ lead in some ways with some of these things when it comes to. How they feel comfortable in the world, and so we’re always sort of navigating that, 

Colleen: communicating about it. Mm-hmm. Keep the dialogue open, keep giving him opportunities to take ownership of it.

Colleen: Whichever way it may be, he might be wanting to blend in by matching his hair color, or he might think it’s a really cool thing to match with hair color to, I don’t know. You never know. 

Colleen: Communicate. Yeah, [00:31:00] I really just think there’s so much value in the perspective that you offer as a professional and a personal per, like a, in your own personal journey.

Colleen: I think there’s so much wisdom you can give to families, so I think it’s neat what you’re doing and I know there’s lots of people that that benefit from it. 

Michelle: That being said, I am coming out with a tween journal that will serve like probably ages eight to 15 soon with like exercises and questions and almost like a diary, but it’s just them, their own thoughts and solidifying that you know what All you need to do is be.

Colleen: I love that. I love that. Well, that is awesome. Will that be available on your website when it’s up? When it’s out? Absolutely. 

Michelle: Yes. It’s almost done. Very cool. Then publishers and then getting it out there.

Colleen: Very cool. Very cool. We’ll be excited to share that with everybody. 

Colleen: Thank you. Well, thank you so much, Michelle, for joining us.

Colleen: Remind everyone again [00:32:00] where they can find you on social media, where they can find your courses, all of that. 

Michelle: My Instagram handle is mama m a m a dot h u h e a r s, and then my website is www.mamawhohuhears.com. Love 

Colleen: it. Love it. Thank you so much. Thank you, 

Michelle: Michelle. Absolutely. I had a wonderful time with you guys.

Wendy: So thank you all for joining us on another episode of All Ears at Child’s Voice. Please be sure to join us for our next episode. 

Colleen: You can follow us and this podcast on Instagram with the handle at Child’s Voice podcast. We love to hear from you, so please email us@podcastchildsvoice.org and you can find episodes, show notes, and archived episodes at our child’s voice website, Childs voice dot.

Wendy: And if you’re interested in learning 

Wendy: more about us, we’re on [00:33:00] Facebook and Twitter with a handle at child’s underscore voice, no apostrophe, and that is all. 

Colleen: Be sure to subscribe to the show wherever you listen so you don’t miss any episodes. If you are interested in supporting child’s voice and the programs like this one, please visit us@childsvoice.org and click on the donate now button.

Colleen: Thanks for listening. Bye 

Michelle: bye.